Bundestag senior president Wolfgang Schäuble (CDU) maneuvered the republic through difficult, but mostly golden times. The Green Emilia Fester, as the youngest member of parliament, is nevertheless looking towards a bleak future. How can that be? A conversation about the concerns of the young, the mistakes of the old and the meaning of politics.
The 79-year-old sits at the head of the conference table in Wolfgang Schäuble’s Bundestag office and wants to get started. To his right: Emilia Fester, 24, the youngest member of Parliament and one of the loudest at the moment. Schäuble, who has had a direct mandate for 50 years, feels like arguing, but has to step back first. We show him Fester’s campaign spot from September. Quote: “We young people feel cheated of our future”.
Mr. Schäuble, what do you say to that?
Schäuble: First of all, I would say that you cannot start this conversation with just your commercial! That’s ageism (laughs).
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We definitely don’t want that.
Fester: Well parried. So you don’t have to say anything about it.
Schäuble: But I can: A well-made spot that was obviously effective. Were you directly elected?
Fester: No, I didn’t have a constituency, I was drafted via the state list.
Excuse me?! The question is: How do you feel about Ms. Fester’s accusation that the last few years have been a single omission?
Schäuble: Yes, that’s what the opposition always says. I did that in 1972 when I ran for the Bundestag and have always been directly elected ever since…
Fester: Congratulations!
Schäuble: …also done. I was 29 years old and of course I didn’t say many good things about Willy Brandt’s government. If you played that to me today, I might feel embarrassed.
So should Mrs. Fester feel embarrassed?
Schäuble: No. A lot has changed for her and the Greens since the spot. Ms. Fester now votes for arms deliveries to Ukraine, Ms. Fester votes for the special fund of 100 billion euros to equip the Bundeswehr. And she supports Mr. Habeck buying gas from the Qataris. Incidentally, he does his job as Economics Minister very well, as does Ms. Baerbock as Foreign Minister.
Fester: Thank you.
Sounds like great goodwill for the Greens. But do you also understand the accusation that you and your generation are to blame for the fact that this world is in such a terrible state?
Schäuble: One thing is certain: the situation is serious. But most of the allegations made by Ms. Fester are not true. Objectively speaking, most people in Germany are doing better than ever before in our history. And yet, I’m happy to admit that one consequence of globalization and the exaggerations of the international financial markets is that, for example, the pay gap between board members and normal employees is wider than ever.
Fester: But that means that the scissors are widening. That’s what it’s all about: And as a result, young people have the feeling of being let down.
Schäuble: But it’s only an excerpt! The overall picture is that young people have very different opportunities than they used to.
But it seems that young people are still not satisfied with your party’s government performance. The Union in particular was hardly able to convince young people in the federal elections.
Schäuble: We really have a problem there. Although I was surprised that the FDP got more votes from young voters than the Greens.
Fester: Only for 18-year-olds, the absolute first voters. We are the leading force among voters under 30. Because the Greens take seriously what concerns my generation: the climate crisis, the Corona crisis, the war in Europe and the failure of the intergenerational contract…
Did it really fail?
Fester: At least he is no longer able to provide adequate, fair pensions. But I’m not concerned with pension policy, but with the really big questions of my generation.
Schäuble: If you heard my speech at the opening of the Bundestag, you should know that I firmly believe that each of us is not just a member of a certain group. As a young woman, you are not only the representative of the youth – just as I am not only the representative of the older generation. Or the wheelchair user. We are all representatives of the whole people, with our specific perspective and experience that we bring to the table. This then becomes democracy.
Fester: Of course, I’m not just an MP for young people. But: My opinion represents a good part of my generation, which is why I represent them in the Bundestag. And I perceive that young people are underrepresented. The right to vote from the age of 18 is not exactly helpful.
Schäuble: I have one question for you: I have four grandchildren aged two, four, fifteen and seventeen. Who do you think should be allowed to vote?
Fester: For me personally: everyone who wants to.
Schäuble: So my two-year-old too?
Fester: That’s how I see it personally. As a representative of my group, I would say that 15 and 17-year-olds should be allowed to vote.
Either way, voter turnout among young voters is lower than in other age groups. Why?
Schäuble: At least not because someone is stopping them. Ms. Fester, who made you get involved in politics?
Fester: The circumstances in which I grew up. And thereby also: I myself.
Schäuble: Look! Then why do you expect us older people to get the young ones to get involved? I wasn’t brought up to get involved in politics either – every generation has to do that itself. But mutual exchange is very important to me. You wouldn’t believe how many school groups and students I met here in the Bundestag and virtually during my time as President of the Bundestag and discussed with them. Just as I am discussing with you here today, Ms. Fester.
Fester: It’s nonsense to pretend that no young people are going to the polls. Perhaps the reluctance also has something to do with the fact that there was no decisive political debate for a long time – perhaps even until Fridays for Future came into being. The climate crisis has politicized many young people. And precisely because we want more participation, we shouldn’t exclude anyone.
Schäuble: But there are good reasons for an age limit. We know that from criminal and civil law. Those who vote must be aware of the implications of their choice. They need to know whom to trust to bear the burden of responsibility, especially in difficult times.
The voting age is ultimately just one piece of the jigsaw puzzle in the debate about the political power of young people. Mr. Schäuble, were the 1968ers more powerful than the Fridays generation today?
Schäuble: I didn’t share the opinion of the ’68ers, but they were a movement that brought a lot of new impetus to a Federal Republic that had become a bit dusty. I see the Fridays movement in a similar way and take their concerns very seriously. However, we can only solve the huge challenges of climate change internationally. Without China, India, the USA and also Russia – I’m thinking of the permafrost soils – it won’t work. Young people always have to keep this in mind, also in the area of our security architecture. Incidentally, even when I was chairman of the parliamentary group in the 1990s, I wanted to push through a tax policy that would tax energy consumption more heavily. I failed with this project and was also accused, which was serious at the time, of being a black-green (laughs).
Fester: It’s a shame that the commitment to an energy tax didn’t work, otherwise we would have gone further (laughs too).
Is the climate movement too good-natured in the face of the massive catastrophe that lies ahead?
Fester: It is incredibly diverse, and some of its characteristics are anything but well-behaved. I myself have decided to go the legislative route. Because I have great faith in democracy and I hope that we can clean up the huge bureaucracy that we created ourselves. But the time for this is short. My future is at stake.
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Schäuble: Ours!
Fester: I think it’s really nice of you to say that.
Schäuble: And I think it’s great that you’ve chosen this path. We have to say to all young people: If you are really convinced of something, then run as a candidate, get into parliament and argue with old warhorses like me! Arguing is the salt of democracy.
Fester: That’s why we’re sitting here.
Schäuble: That’s why I’m kind enough to be so unkind to you. As a young person, you have the right to have your elders contradict you.
Should you, Mr. Schäuble, have contradicted the older generations more? Having to demand limits in order to put the greed for resources in its place?
Schäuble: Yes! When I came to the Bundestag in 1972, the Club of Rome published the report “Limits to Growth” – the first well-founded study on the catastrophe of uncontrolled consumption of resources. That impressed me. I’ve always taken that seriously. I also believe that a conservative, value-based CDU must advocate for such things. That’s why I was early for an alliance with the Greens.
Did you suffer at your party?
Schäuble: Oh, you know, I’m old enough to point fingers at others. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. Anyone who is halfway smart suffers primarily from themselves.
Ms. Fester, do you buy Mr. Schäuble’s early commitment to eco-conservatism?
Schäuble: You can read about that!
Fester: The point is: Nothing happened. It may be that Mr. Schäuble wished for that, but that hasn’t changed anything for today.
Schäuble: Right now, however, I would first like to find an answer as to how we can end this madness in Ukraine without the world going off the rails.
Fester: Since neither of us are foreign politicians, I am very happy to know Annalena Baerbock where she is. She does an incredibly good job. So we can continue to discuss the generation issue.
Schäuble: (shakes his head, says nothing)
Fester: But it’s amazing that now that…
Schäuble: …well, no, Ms. Fester, I have to get that out of the way now: I didn’t think like you! As a young person, I was always most interested in the very biggest questions, and the biggest question now is: how do we end the terrible suffering in Ukraine? I would never have said: Annalena Baerbock has to do that now. I wasn’t that humble. I was more ambitious then.
Fester: In a time of multiple crises, all are too big for one person. We have to split forces. I’m very glad that we’re so good at it in politics.
Schäuble: I have a different opinion. I always wanted to save the world. But I see what you mean.
Fester: I also want to save the world – together with others.
Schäuble: Of course, you can’t do it alone.
The interview first appeared in FOCUS magazine. You can read Part II here: Interview with Wolfgang Schäuble and Emilia Fester (Part 2) – Young Green politician: “My generation is not greedy, it is afraid”
